Five-fold - or - Four-fold?

[Jim Watt]

“*TWO ARE BETTER THAN ONE” MINISTRIES*

*Jim & Marie Watt*

*Tel: 253-517-9195 - Email: jmbetter at gmail.com*

*Web: www.2rbetter.org*

April 13, 2012


 *2012-04-11 - Five-fold - or - Four-fold?*


 *NOTE**: *I recently received the following response from the mailing of
my following response -


 “*Shepherds and teachers are the same as indicated by the lack of a
definite article.”***


 As you can see from my response, I held his same position for a number of
years. Why I withdrew from my former dogmatic position, you can observe. I
suppose I am mellowing in theological positions with the passing of the
years - but I trust I am as close to adhering to *the true* meaning of
Scripture nonetheless. *You* judge!


 Do a Google-search on “Albert Mohler, President of Southern Baptist
Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky,” the Flagship of this
denomination of some 16 million.


 I am impressed with the scholarship of this man, yet at the same time his
openness in receiving people in spite of their position. This is an area I
would desire to emulate more.


 “*I am the last of the 7 elders from the Summer Camp meeting of 1948 at
North Battleford, Saskatchewan.*

*I really feel that elders should be somewhat older. I was but 25 at the
time, but had been with the teachers of the Sharon Orphanage and Schools in
1945 as a first year student at Bethel Bible Institute, and when the divine
Visitation came, I was asked to join them.*


 *12 Embryonic Revival Principles came together that year, starting
February 12th. The second concerned the Five-fold Ministry Gifts of
Ephesians 4:11-12. George R. Hawtin delved into this portion of the
Scriptures again and again, so as a young person, I easily picked it up.
Later I became interested in the 4 couplets in Isaiah 11:2, describing the
ministry of the coming Messiah, and by linking shepherds (pastors) and
teachers together as a couplet, I felt I had a match. I continued in a
Four-fold treatment of this passage in Ephesians for a number of years.*


 *However, I was influenced by the illustration of Ivan Panin: “If you take
a drop of water out of the ocean and analyze it, in trace form you will
find all the constituent elements of the ocean. In like manner, when you
take a verse out of the Bible and analyze it, it should not in any manner
contradict any other portion of Scripture.” I like that. Some have said,
But that would mean that a teacher of the Word would have to have an
accurate grasp of the entire Bible. Exactly! That's why James said in 3:1 -
“Be not many teachers, my brethren, knowing that we shall receive greater
condemnation!” Rather, our attitude should be like Panin in one of his
favorite verses in Isaiah 66:2b - “But this is the one to whom I will look
declares the LORD: he who is humble and contrite in spirit and trembles at
my word!” I like that, for the fear of the Lord is the beginning of both
wisdom and knowledge. A healthy respect for Him and His Word, is wisdom
indeed!*


 *So as I continued in my growth in Him - I came across 1 Corinthians 12:28
- “And :God has set some in the church, first apostle, second prophets,
third teachers, and numbers to follow.” As in Ephesians 4:11, there are no
definite articles preceding “teacher” there, nor before these first 3
ministries. As some have pointed out in the Ephesians passage, does this
make these three in Corinthians - one - as pastor and teacher are linked as
one there, because there is no article preceding “teacher”? *


 *And then what of 1 Timothy 5:17 - “Let the elders ruling well (pastors,
shepherds) be counted worthy of double honor, specially those who toil in
the word and teaching.” The obvious conclusion here is that all elder
pastors are not gifted also in teaching, and therefore are not teachers.*


 *Going back to Panin's analogy of a drop of ocean water - and a Bible
verse out of the total Bible context - then I have to be careful about
interpreting Ephesians 4:11-12! *


 *I have typed up the entire NT translation of Panin's English translation,
including each colon (:) standing for the definite article “the” -
preceding a noun or other part of speech preceded by a colon, but for which
it would be improper to translate it. I wrote in by hand his entire Bible
Numeric Greek text underneath, clause by clause and sentence by sentence,
not word for word. I also outlined each Bible Numeric sentence, gathered
these summaries into sub-paragraphs, paragraphs, sections or chapter
equivalents and finally the 27 NT books. I agree with Panin concerning the
importance of the Greek article, whether translated or indicated by symbol.
Jehovah Witnesses love to point out from John 1:1 that Jesus is not divine
like the Father - because there is no article preceding Him when described
as just God - no article!*


 *But in John 20:28, Thomas responds to Jesus' challenge concerning His
true resurrection by saying: “My :Lord and my :God.” Here the article
precedes Jesus as God, making Him one with His Father!*


 *So what is my “take”, and what is my “conclusion?” I have to reverently
say to God, that I don't know His Word as completely as I would like. I
come back to a saying from a Book Title I picked up in the mid-40's - “Let
God say what He wants to say - and let the Bible mean what it wants to
mean.” Therefore I humbly come back to Ephesians 4:11-12 and say - perhaps
after all this verse does not preclude the 5-fold ministry. So I must eat
humble pie. But for His sake and His Word's sake - being dead to sin
according to Romans 6, I am most willing to do.*


 *Do I ask others to follow my example. Not necessarily. In 1945 I was
handed a tract - “Others may - you cannot!” I am on a pilgrimage. Others
are on their pilgrimages. The Moravian proverbs says, “In essentials, unity;
in non-essentials - tolerance; in all things, charity or love.” I count
this problem as a non-essential. You can see my tentative position from
above. Several fellow-students - not scholars - have discussed this. Some
have asked Greek professors concerning this. The more we study and discuss,
the less dogmatic we become in this particular area. In the areas of the
“essential”! No compromise! But in this area, - well!”*


 *Jim Watt*



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